Programs

Adult Group March 21, 2010 -- Passover and Easter: A Panel Discussion

Introduction

Ian Spatz, Moderator: Like the December Dilemma of Hannukah and Christmas, the Easter/Passover season spotlights differences between our two traditions and tends to divide people into separate camps. This is perhaps even more the case for Easter and Passover than for the December holidays because Easter and Passover, including the mystery of Easter, are so central to the two faiths theologically. Todays panel of IFFP members will discuss how they understand and address these issues and will offer some history on the two spring time holidays.

Panel

Larry Bostian -- I have been an IFFP member since 1998. I was raised in the Presbyterian Church and still consider myself a Christian.

Our oldest Easter writings come from Paul, who wrote during the first generation after Jesus. Paul wrote before the fall of the Temple, prior to 70 AD. The Gospels all came later. Paul saw himself as a Jew, and wrote that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the sacred writings.

As to mystery, as the Rabbi often says, The world may not be comprehensible, but it is embraceable.

Rabbi White -- From a historical point of view, I have no problem with Easter. Traditionally, before Passover there was often a feast, known as the Feast of the Pascal Lamb. This is still seen in places in contemporary society. The lamb is where we get the reference to Jesus as the lamb. Physical resurrection is also a Jewish concept. Even today Orthodox Judaism prohibits embalmment, autopsy and cremation.

The problem with Easter is its historical association with Good Friday. In the Gospels [Matthew 27:22] there is the scene where Jesus is brought before Pontius Pilate and the Jews are portrayed as shouting, Crucify him, crucify him! This week more than any other was therefore the week when Jews were called Christ killers and dirty Jew. It has historically been a very difficult time of year. Most pogroms occurred during this time.

Reverend Julia Christians have a long way to go. Bishop Shelby Spong has written, The first thing we have to do is seek repentance [forgiveness?] from the Jewish people. But I think we can't understand Easter without a first century context. The Jesus Seminar Scholars said we need to start over again. Let go of all the sermons you've heard, all the art you've seen, and start over.

Paul said nothing about an empty tomb. And the the third day part is from Hosea. [Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.] The struggle was with Caesar. The people were desperately poor peasants, and the idea of a New Kingdom would have been seen as a great relief.

The idea of redemption is from the Book of Maccabees and from Daniel. [In 2 Maccabees, a martyr on the verge of death puts out his tongue, stretches out his arms and declares, I got these from Heaven, and because of his Laws I disdain them, and from him I hope to get them back again. (2 Maccabees 7:11). See also Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2).]

So I would challenge everyone to let go of old assumptions and teachings, and be open to the new.

Lance Flitter I have been an IFFP member for 15 years. We were the first couple without kids to join.

I think we are always confronting the other, as the Buddha says, in an interfaith relationship. I see this as an opportunity for self-reflection on priorities. In our family, Easter and Passover were never that much of a challenge. Our relationship as a family was what was important. Other things were secondary.

Reverend Beth (Director of Religious Education) I just wanted to interject that were not teaching the kids that they'll go to hell if they don't believe Jesus physically rose from the dead.

Lisa Henderson I was raised a southern fundamentalist Christian. We didn't dwell on Easter and Christmas because we were told to think about Jesus all the time. I think its easier for Christians to participate in Jewish holidays than the other way around, for historical reasons.

Sue Katz-Miller I was raised interfaith, but still the Easter Jesus was always a secret, a sort of forbidden topic. We had the Easter baskets and so on, but we never really talked about the Easter story.

Josh -- When I listen to the Rabbi and the stories about the pogroms, I feel very fortunate to have grown up in the 1980s. I did not experience anti-Semitism.

My wife does struggle with Passover and laws on food. It truly is the Bread of affliction. So now I'm eating matzah, and she's eating bread. I don't know what the kids will do.

I distinguish this season from Christmas because of Easter's relative lack of commercialism. As a Jew during Christmas, everywhere I turn I feel like an outsider. But at Easter time, I have Passover, which is wonderful.

The trouble I have with Easter is actually the going to church part. I feel like they're trying to convert me in the Catholic churches.

My wife used to give up things for Lent, but she doesn't anymore. And it makes her sad not to do it. That's one family tradition we've let drop.

Ian Spatz I think we should also look at the Haggadah. It often makes non-Jews uncomfortable.

Rabbi White There is only one part that might make them uncomfortable, and that has to do with the opening of the door for Elijah the Prophet. That practice grew out of the Christian belief that Jews baked bread with the blood of Christian children. So the door was left open to show to anyone that this was not true. [See http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm.]

Q&A

Q:>We celebrate both, with an Easter dinner and a Seder. We keep kosher -- at least no bread. There was one year at the neighborhood Easter egg hunt where some neighbor kids had set up a cupcake stand, and our kids didn't get to eat the cupcakes. This incident left a strong memory, and they still remind me of it.

One thing difficult about the Easter dinner is that the meal itself isn't focused as the Seder is around a specific food. Ham and what??

Rabbi White The egg on the Seder plate represents spring time. More recently, when I was growing up, we had Barton's kosher chocolate rabbits. Thank God!

Q: I was taught there are three tenets of Lent (1) act charitably (2) pray and (3) deprivation. I always liked Passover and saw it as an extension. I've always been invited to Seders, but we've never done our own.

Q: There is some embarrassment around the ash mark some Catholics put on their forehead Ash Wednesday. I didn't want to make the mark when we moved to a Jewish community. I'm envious when I see other Catholics now who still do the ashes and make a mark.

Rabbi White The ashes come from Palm Sunday.

Q:That's right. In many Catholic churches the palm branches are saved for ashes the following year in Ash Wednesday services.

Rabbi White When he entered Jerusalem Jesus was greeted by people carrying palm branches because they were preparing for the tradition of Pesach. Palm branches were also gathered for the Sukkos in the fall. Palms are used to make the Havdalah candle.

Rev. Beth -- In the first grade class the kids talk about resurrection as a mystery. They play with the tabernacle and figures. In the older kids classes we ask, What do you think about this? We don't dwell on the thorny theological issues. The more important thing is the meaning. This is true of other miracle stories too. (We have a packet if people would like more information on how we address these issues.)

Rabbi White Pope John XXIII and reshaped this discussion. Through Vatican II he forwarded the idea of the double covenant. To be a Christian, you had to be a Jew first. It's a very different world today from what it was prior to Vatican II. Look at me, I've taught for 41 years at a Jesuit University!

Q: -- I was concerned when my young daughter came home and said, Mom, it's true. They rolled away the stone and his body was gone.

Josh:-- I'm intrigued by Mormonism, in which recent miracles play such an important role. I don't believe certain particular things, but I do think there can be value in teaching miracles. It can keep kids from being cynical.

Q: -- I think it's important to remember there are in fact three Catholic Churches -- Anglican, Roman and Orthodox. The Anglican Church, in which I grew up, had a full historical teaching of Easter in a first century context.

As to the previous comment about miracles, I believe miracles do happen, and I think were all sitting in the middle of a small one.